Topic: Communitarianism

what is the difference between communitarianism and socialism?

what is the difference between these two ideologies?
Blanco y egro my question is difference between COMMUNITARIANIS and socialism, NOT COMMUNISM and socialism ?:(

Socialism allows private ownership of companies(as a sham), but the government controls(regulates) the means of production.
Communism is government ownership and control of the means of production.

In socialism, the business owner ends up working for the government. But the government needs someone to manage the company, so they tolerate the owner as long as he/she is useful.

Communism removes these illusions by confiscating all private property! (This is the key difference) Socialism allows for some ownership of private property!
However, both systems strive to equalize the importance of labor. Otherwise, a doctor or lawyer is no better than a common laborer.(comrade) limiting or diminishing self interest to excel & take high risk above average.
The problem with these systems is they demean individual achievement. In fact, the goal is to destroy the individual and elevate the group. There is no real individualism in either of these systems.
The "State" (or society) is of up most importance, erasing identity and worse, freedom!!!

Oligarchies

Capitalism=Representation base rule by Businessmen, Industrialist, Philosophers, & Commoners

Socialism/Fascism=State heavily controlled by Paramilitary Bureaucrats a firm grip on Business/Economy

Communism=State heavily controlled by Paramilitary Bureaucrats, usually Lawyers, a firm grip on Industry/Economy

Monarchy=State controlled by the Aristocracy/Nobility

Theocracy=State controlled by the Church

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=At2KZy3fo.N9IIEBNimirwbty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110815175018AAprmDB

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Al7GRIjdeW68.VLjNfdI39Tty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110818232621AAggx93

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AlmT3nufb51OrT3H9TBs5u3ty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110813061818AAxoBun

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjMdeeDgsl5lWcpqJQNdTpnty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110723124456AA2CncT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaKGaK3NXfo

Philosophy essay question?

For centuries philosophers have debated what the ideal society has looked like, central to that debate are questions concerning; What is the justification for state authority? (Hobbes, Locke, Rosseau, Marx)
What is the best economic system? (Marx, Smith, St. Simon, Nozick, Marcuse)
What is the proper balance of individual rights and the rights of the community? (Communitarianism-Libertarianism)
In a well writen essay, outline a variety of philosophers views on each of the questions viewed above after doing so describe your idea of the ideal society and support your view with the idea of political and social philosophers.

In the brackets I have listed which philosophers I think would go well with the questions, but can someone please help me by telling me what I should talk about from each philosopher?

Remember that Hobbs believes that we just want to be left alone. All humans want is order and if we don’t have one absolute ruler life would be brutish and unlivable.

Locke believes the reason why are society sucks is because of religion. He says that religion causes unrest. Be believes that a society without religion would be the best.

Rousseau is interesting. He says in "the First and Seconds discourse" that man should go back to how they where in nature. That is, he believes that things would be easier if we didn’t have all these rules. we are unable to live our lives thus we are help down by chains that tell us how we ought to be. Actually, in one of his essays, he pleaded against a theatre in his community of Geneva because it would make women compete.

And Marx says that there are 2 extremes the proletariat and the Bourgeoisie. He thinks that capitalism is a bad idea. he thinks capitalism makes us evil. and the Bourgeoisie is holding the proletariat down.

But, i personally think that Marx is the most closes to our society not just because who are in control? The richest one percent right?

I just not agree with a capitalist society because who benefits from it?

About right is you read "On Liberty" by John Stewart Mill he basically says that excessive gov should be out of the picture. People should be able to choose what they like or dislike. But the problem is if we go back to a society where the people have more power and we go back to nature as Rousseau would say there would be to many rules. And how are we individuals with all these rules?

This is crappy…but if i had more time i could go into it more

Besides the implied threat of federal force, is there anything common uniting Americans?

Politically you more or less three sides that believe…
-in the supremacy of the state and communitarianism
-in private property, individualism, and just wants to be left alone
-in nothing and is largely an apathetic nonparticipating group.

Throw in racial issues, various religions, regional cultures, and even different languages…so whats really holds America together?

The illusion we are free and that we can make a difference.

Communitarian Libertarianism…?

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/libertarianism-as-communitarianism/

Thoughts? Do you think this could "work", and what do you think this means in light of Facebook, twitter, etc?

yes, i do.

Explain communitarianism in simple terms.?

I have a basic understand. I need a layman’s explanation though.

Communitarianism emphasizes the need to balance individual rights and interests with that of the community as a whole, and argues that individual people (or citizens) are shaped by the cultures and values of their communities.

What are your views on communitarianism?

(as opposed to Liberalism)

Don’t answer if you think I’m talking about Democrats and Republicans.

well I think it would be a great idea if we were not already indoctrinated in another way – the problem always seems to be how to get there from here – nice idea but requires individuals who have been allowed to think for themselves

Can communitarianism be justified?

Is there any philosophical justification that can be provided for valuing the life, needs and thoughts of someone from your own community(distant family, distant friends, religion, ethnicity, race, etc.) over that of others?

Simple gratitude is problematic since most of such examples involve people who’ve never done anything for us so it must be something better than that. Philosophers have come up with extremely robust ethical systems but this presents a problem. If you’re confused, this is the problem

"A truly virtuous man would rush to save the life of a complete stranger just as willingly as his closest friend. It follows therefore that a truly virtuous man would have no friends"

What if both of them were drowning at the same time with only enough time to save one? What would you do? Flip a coin?

Many philosophers have struggled to come up with ethical systems that justify attaching more importance to some people over others(people from our community). But whenever we do that, it always leads to bad results – a closing off of society and a lessening of humanity – since this carries with it all sorts off additional quandries. Such as us having to then also privilege/trust our communities opinions and beliefs over others. And we all know where that leads…….

We have strong philosophical(unreligious) ethical systems. But people instinctively believe that ‘their’ people should be given preference over others(I think the Buddha also spoke about this issue as well). But philosophers, as far as I’m aware, haven’t yet managed to justify such favoritism in a proper ethical system that doesn’t lead to moral ambiguity.

Or have they? Do you know of some ideas that have? Or have some of your own? Please share.
So far the Philosophy section hasn’t given me any answers. That’s why I’ve put it up here. Nearest kinda section I could find. Plus this section is always ultra-active………
Also, I’m looking for a philosophical theory of ethics. Not a biological explanation of where this tendency of ours came from. That I already know, thank you.
@El Americano: That is true. However, that would work even better(utility maximised) if we looked out for all fellow human beings equally, rather than choose to privilege some(like fellow citizens). Communitarianism would have us privilege those we can identify with. This goes against utility maximisation when loyalties collide, as often they do. If loyalty were universalised, then the cause of utility maximisation would be greatly benefitted. Thus, this seems to argue against communitarianism, which is exactly my problem. I’ve been unable to justify it myself so far. My thanks for the effort, though.

Communitarianism can be said to be similar to nationalism. Nationalism isn’t only a sense of pride in one’s nation, it’s also a utilitarian bond that a people have. This bond is essential of communication, cooperation, and the over all health of a society. In other words, it propagates prosperity for a nation. So with communitarianism, it can be said that it is a utilitarian function of a society. Nietzsche would put such notions down saying that man intrinsically gravitates towards his weakness and thus protects himself by bonding with the philosophy of, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In many respects he is correct, but as Kant would states, it’s only a rational by product of our solution oriented capabilities. In short, there is a philosophical justification for communitarianism, which is a utilitarian feature. If we all look out for each other, then when the time comes one might look out for us in our time of need, and if we all do this then the society as a whole will prosper which helps to fend against larger enemies and issues.

Additional Details

I see your point and failed to understand what you were actually asking. I agree with the fact that humans as whole would benefit from a holistically humanitarian approach however, we all know that’s not going to happen soon. In the world of make believe where things are perfect, there would be no famine, wars, restricting borders or even a currency system. We are far, far, far, from reaching any one of those goals. Communitarianism is extremely limited, short sighted, and fallible . . . just as humans are. It’s obviously one of our own little creations.

So ultimately, can it be justified as an ultimate good for the overall good of humanity? NO! Can be it be seen as a practical tool in an extremely imperfect world? YES!

Can communitarianism be justified?

Is there any philosophical justification that can be provided for valuing the life, needs and thoughts of someone from your own community(distant family, distant friends, religion, ethnicity, race, etc.) over that of others?

Simple gratitude is problematic since most of such examples involve people who’ve never done anything for us so it must be something better than that. Philosophers have come up with extremely robust ethical systems but this presents a problem. If you’re confused, this is the problem

"A truly virtuous man would rush to save the life of a complete stranger just as willingly as his closest friend. It follows therefore that a truly virtuous man would have no friends"

What if both of them were drowning at the same time with only enough time to save one? What would you do? Flip a coin?

Many philosophers have struggled to come up with ethical systems that justify attaching more importance to some people over others(people from our community). But whenever we do that, it always leads to bad results – a closing off of society and a lessening of humanity – since this carries with it all sorts off additional quandries. Such as us having to then also privilege/trust our communities opinions and beliefs over others. And we all know where that leads…….

We have strong philosophical(unreligious) ethical systems. But people instinctively believe that ‘their’ people should be given preference over others(I think the Buddha also spoke about this issue as well). But philosophers, as far as I’m aware, haven’t yet managed to justify such favoritism in a proper ethical system that doesn’t lead to moral ambiguity.

Or have they? Do you know of some ideas that have? Or have some of your own? Please share.
Life-saving is just an example. The second para after that one explains the real problem – valuing not just the person’s life, but his needs, opinions, desires, thoughts and stances on issues. What I mean(I mentioned it in para one) is that we wish to value the members of our community more than other people. This does not stand up to ethical scrutiny because it is basically just discrimination. Even if you don’t infringe on other people’s rights by negatively discriminating against them, the very act of choosing one person over another without a proper logical and ethical basis(a justifiable one like gratitude for past services), by just appealing to kinship, is plain and simple discrimination without acceptable basis for it.

I don’t see how it follows that a truly virtuous man would have no friends, merely because they don’t get to cut in line ahead of a stranger when life saving is needed. A friend values your association for more than the priority he might enjoy in the "life needs saving" queue..

What if the ethical thing was to have a pre-arranged system, by which we let all who enter our community know that while we delight in their company, and we wish them all a safe and happy visit, they should be aware that when simultaneous life saving is impossible, we break the tie saving those who we already know best. We expect no other consideration at the times we are visiting their community, or when we find ourselves in need of help and only one among those that do.

I don’t see moral ambiguity here. I see equal and fair treatment, depending on who is visiting whom.

(Autocracy Democracy Oligarchy or Theocracy), Nationalism or Internationalism, Individualism or Collectivism ?

What do you support:

Autocracy (Authoritarianism, Monarchy, Totalitarianism, Despotism, Dictatorship or other) or
Democracy (Direct, Semi-direct, Representative or other) or
Oligarchy (Aristocracy, Gerontocracy, Meritocracy or other) or
Theocracy

Nationalism (Civic or Liberal, Ethnic, Religious, Expansionist, Territorial, other) or
Internationalism (Cosmopolitanism, other)

Individualism (Liberalism, Individualist Anarchism, Libertarianism, other) or
Collectivism (Communitarianism, Totalitarian Nationalism, other)

P.s: Made by me
Me:

Oligarchy – Meritocracy

Nationalism – Liberal + Ethnic

Collectivism – Communitarianism

Ideally I would be in favour democracy but it’s a bit like Communism (or the Prohibition) in that it’s a great idea but will never work. The problem that we see with democracy is that people are largely ungovernable. Even in Ancient Greece, where democracy was invented (Demos – People; Kratos – Power), the man in the street did not have the vote. Voting was done by an elect Senate of the intellectual aristocracy. This was the same with the Roman Empire. The problem is that most people are far more interested in soap operas, reality TV, trashy tabloids, State handouts, beer, football and celebrities than they are in key political issues. To give these people the power to put governments in place is ridiculous. Whilst I am not in favour of Autocracy, in reality it is probably the only system that actually works. I’m also strongly in favour of Nationalism.

(Autocracy Democracy Oligarchy or Theocracy), Nationalism or Internationalism, Individualism or Collectivism?

What do you support:

Autocracy (Authoritarianism, Monarchy, Totalitarianism, Despotism, Dictatorship or other) or
Democracy (Direct, Semi-direct, Representative or other) or
Oligarchy (Aristocracy, Gerontocracy, Meritocracy or other) or
Theocracy

Nationalism (Civic or Liberal, Ethnic, Religious, Expansionist, Territorial, other) or
Internationalism

Individualism (Liberalism, Individualist Anarchism, Libertarianism, other) or
Collectivism (Communitarianism, Totalitarian Nationalism, other)

P.s: Made by me
Me:

Oligarchy – Meritocracy

Nationalism – Ethnic

Collectivism – Communitarianism

Geh?