Topic: Libertarian socialism

What are your opinions on Libertarian socialism, and would you be open to it?

I myself concider myself to be a libertarian socialist, what are your views on it?
-For those who don’t know what it is, here is the first paragraph from the wikipedia article on it.

Libertarian socialism (sometimes called socialist anarchism,[1][2] and sometimes left libertarianism[3][4]) is a group of political philosophies that aspire to create a society without political, economic, or social hierarchies, i.e. a society in which all violent or coercive institutions would be dissolved, and in their place every person would have free, equal access to the tools of information and production.[5]

Sounds a lot like anarchy.

I am a "classic liberal" – ie: a Libertarian who believes in the Free Market and follows the Austrian School of Economics. I believe that the best government is "limited government" – not "no government".

Governments are necessary in order to secure the rights of the people and ensure that people are free to operate in society. In the political scenario you are proposing, there would be no Government to protect the free movement of people. Trade, commerce, and innovation could not flourish because everyone would be constantly spending all their time protecting themselves and their property. With limited government, however, this problem would not surface.

In today’s society, the people have forfeited too much of their personal liberty into the hands of Government. I support a scaling back of this Government expansion into the size that promotes the maximal personal liberty, while ensuring the safety of the citizenry.

Why do some people call Libertarian Socialism an oxymoron?

Are people simply unaware that words have different meanings outside the United States? The American LP in no way reflects the original Libertarians from the 18th and 19th century, since the American LP is a bunch of confused right wingers, and the original Libertarian Socialists are extreme left wing anarchists.
As I thought, many of you can’t wrap your head around the idea that politics exist outside the US. The American LP began in 1971. Libertarians existed for centuries before that, and they were nothing like so-called "Libertarians" in that party. Read a book, people.
Alex Libertarian, look up Pierre Proudhon and Joseph Dejaque. Dejaque was the first person on record to call himself Libertarian, and I believe he was an anarcho-communist.
Alex, do you have reading comprehension problems? I’m not talking about the American Libertarian Party, which is completely different from Libertarian Socialism. The American Libertarian Party is less than 40 years old for goodness sake. Libertarian Socialists have been here and abroad for centuries.
Polly Anna…wtf? Just answer the damn question! I’ve heard some people as opposed to everyone I’ve spoken with call it an oxymoron. Are you touched?

The original Libertarians WERE Republicans. But as time went on Libertarians wanted classic free market system while the republicans still wanted a little government regulations such as the Fed to keep everything in check. That is why Libertarians formed their own party in 1971.

Socialism WANTS government control on economic matters while Libertarian want a free market system where the government is small and rarely interferes with the economy. I don’t see how these two can exist together.

You cant be a left wing anarchist. Anarchism is the opposite of Communism.

Edit: One of the Libertarians of the past was John Stuart Mill. He believed in classic laissez-faire free market. He wanted the government to stay out of the economy but still thought that a little government interference such as tax on alcohol was needed. He was a Libertarian and a classic one. He was AGAINST socialism and did not appreciate Karl Marx attack on his book "on liberty".

Now if JS Mill was truly left wing then why would Karl Marx attack him?

Edit: Just because he called himself a Libertarian does not mean that HE was a Libertarian. For example JS Mill and Bentham were Libertarians but they did not call themselves Libertarian. Scholars today agree that they were Libertarians.

Why has socialism become so vilified?

Socialism does not necessarily mean big government or oppression, or everyone being paid the same. If you want to break down Socialism, the basic thing all socialists would agree upon is that Capitalism is a corrupting system. Some socialism even embraces Capitalist ideas, one strand, Libertarian socialism(some lib socialists) even supports the function of a free market.

Socialism does not afford the standard of living that capitalism does. There isn’t the production, innovation in any socialist country and the unemployment rates are about what Obama has brought US. No recessions either because the economy is a flat line. Why would you wish that on me?

Libertarian socialism. A contradiction?

"…promoting equality (as valued by socialism) will inherently require restrictions on liberty (as valued by libertarianism), forcing the society to choose one or the other as their primary value."

I’ll 2nd Thomas.

Joseph Dejacque first used the term to call Pierre-Joseph Proudhon’s defense of sexism "libéral et non LIBERTAIRE." For Dejacque, it seems, an anarchism which condemned the state, and some other hierarchies, was merely [radical classical] liberal, while an anarchism which opposed every hierarchy was libertarian. (in this sense, anarchism and libertarianism have more than traded meanings).

http://joseph.dejacque.free.fr/ecrits/lettreapjp.htm

There were other notable differences; Dejaque was a communist anarchist, and Proudhon was a market anarchist, but both were considered anarchists and socialists.

Later in the 19th century, the socialist movement split between the state socialism of Marx et al. and the libertarian socialism of Bakunin et al., sometimes called anarchism and sometimes called libertarianism.

In the 20th century, however, state socialists have often redefined socialism to exclude anarchism, while anti-state capitalists have also redefined libertarianism and anarchism to refer to limited-state and no-state versions of their theories. So both "socialism" and "libertarianism" need another word to explain *which* socialism or *which* libertarianism they refer to.

Libertarian socialism is libertarian in the same senses that libertarian capitalists use, e.g. the non-aggression principle. Malatesta wrote that:

"In the anarchist milieu, communism, individualism, collectivism, mutualism and all the intermediate and eclectic programmes are simply the ways considered best for achieving freedom and solidarity in economic life; the ways believed to correspond more closely with justice and freedom for the distribution of the means of production and the products of labour among men. … But in the long run it is always the searching for a more secure guarantee of freedom which is the common factor among anarchists, and which divides them into different schools."

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/malatesta/note.html

However, libertarian socialism is not always socialist in the various senses which libertarian capitalists use, and vice-versa.

Anarchist, Marxist, and pro-capitalist definitions of socialism have steadily diverged since the mid 19th century.

Ben Tucker wrote this definition:

"Socialism is the belief that the next important step in progress is a change in man’s environment of an economic character that shall include the abolition of every privilege whereby the holder of wealth acquires an anti-social power to compel tribute."

http://fair-use.org/benjamin-tucker/instead-of-a-book/armies-that-overlap

And many modern anarchists use similar definitions:

"The various schools of socialism present different solutions to this exploitation and subjection. From the nationalisation of capitalist property by the state socialists, to the socialisation of property by the libertarian communists, to the co-operatives of mutualism, to the free market of the individualist anarchists, all are seeking, in one way or the other, to ensure the end of the domination and exploitation of labour by capital. The disagreements between them all rest in whether their solutions achieve this aim and whether they will make life worth living and enjoyable (which also explains why individualist and social anarchists disagree so much!). For anarchists, state socialism is little more than state capitalism, with a state monopoly replacing capitalist monopolies and workers being exploited by one boss (the state) rather than many."

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secG1.html

The pro-capitalist writer Mises, having defined "socialism" in terms of state interventions, found that most socialists understood socialism in quite different terms (and defined "syndicalism" very widely to include all these):

"In the minds of the great bulk of workers who call themselves socialists or communists, Syndicalism presents itself, at least as vividly as Socialism."

http://www.mises.org/books/socialism/part2_ch16.aspx

The various libertarian capitalists often borrow Mises’ definition, which, by his own admission, doesn’t match socialist definitions of socialism. Hence the confusion.

is libertarian socialism an oxymoron?

Discuss.

No the way American libertarians use the word, free market fundamentalism, is incorrect. Everywhere else in the world libertarian means what it meant throughout history extreme freedom which is not the same as unregulated capitalism

Is libertarian-socialism self-contradictory?

"…promoting equality (as valued by socialism) will inherently require restrictions on liberty (as valued by libertarianism), forcing the society to choose one or the other as their primary value."

Yes and in so doing they balance one another. Pure socialism Will kill all entrepreneurial desire because you cannot gain in any way when all is equal. Pure libertarianism is total chaos because everyone would be totally self centered. This is why the Greeks valued their "Doctrine of the golden mean" and Buddhists are always searching for the Center. This is also what is wrong with politics in the U.S. today. For decades the left and the right have been moving further and further apart. We need to get CENTERED.

What is Libertarian Socialism?

Is it complete leftism in which there is complete social freedom but loads of fiscal regulation?
I agree it is an oxymoron, but they don’t think so, so just give me a useful answer please.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding of the nature
of anarchism.

Anarchists (also known as libertarians or libertarian
socialists, in the original sense of socialism as worker-
ownership-and-control of the means of production)
oppose illegitimate authority and hierarchy, and therefore
oppose capitalism and the state; anarchists do not oppose
all organization: anarchists favor voluntary, non-
hierarchical, self-organization. Anarchists do not oppose
all rules and laws; anarchists oppose rules and laws
imposed involuntarily by illegitimate authorities, such
as the state, and favor voluntarily-agreed-upon rules and
laws.

"Anarchy 101", an excellent introduction to anarchism,
can be found here:

http://tinyurl.com/2fq4d2

"An Anarchist FAQ", giving an in-depth treatment of
anarchism, can be found here:

http://www.anarchistfaq.org/

*****

News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo/

What is Libertarian socialism?


it’s basically our gov’t now, without the authoritarian, militaristic and coporatist parts, leaving social programs and assistance to the poorest members of society and resource distribution in the hands of popular consensus rather than a let-it-think-for-you capitalist system that is easily manipulated and taken advantage of. it’s direct democracy and communism. the libertarian part refers to civil liberties and socialism refers to an economic system where resources are distributed by people through consensus and votes rather than through intangible laws like supply and demand and profit and loss.

What are the problems with a Libertarian Socialist view?

I am very interested in this political/social/economical viewpoint and would like more information on the counterpoint of libertarian socialism. What do those oppose say to libertarian socialist?

Robinson provided the definition of a staunch libertarian, NOT a libertarian socialist. LS is a rejection of exclusively minimal government, we accept that the government must exist and provide certain services, but that the guiding factor is individual rights. Things like foreign policy, federal highways, national parks, healthcare, economics, and so on, all must be filtered through the lens of how they affect individual rights.

Libertarian Socialism…what difference could it make?

Let us say we abolish all authority and rights to ownership. Would this serve to make us all equals and absolutely free on an individual level? First, how can a society without laws be an organized society? And if it has laws, how does it enforce them without authority? What about social dominance and position in the social pecking order? One individual having more power than another? It looks like its doomed to end up going right back to meritocracy; only with alot more red tape. Anyone explain?

There is a great deal of misunderstanding of the nature
of anarchism.

Anarchists (also known as libertarians or libertarian
socialists, in the original sense of socialism as worker-
ownership-and-control of the means of production)
oppose illegitimate authority and hierarchy, and therefore
oppose capitalism and the state; anarchists do not oppose
all organization: anarchists favor voluntary, non-
hierarchical, self-organization. Anarchists do not oppose
all rules and laws; anarchists oppose rules and laws
imposed involuntarily by illegitimate authorities, such
as the state, and favor voluntarily-agreed-upon rules and
laws.

"Anarchy 101", an excellent introduction to anarchism,
can be found here:

http://tinyurl.com/2fq4d2

"An Anarchist FAQ", giving an in-depth treatment of
anarchism, can be found here:

http://www.anarchistfaq.org/

*****

News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo/