How can America be a "Christian nation" if Democracy was invented by Athenian "pagans"?
Seriously, we also borrowed Rome’s arcitecture and style of government….so how are we a "fundamentally Christian" nation?
pink lemur 13-
"The United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…"
Founding Father and second President of the United States, John Adams.
What do you have to say to that?
Dale R- Yes, but we do have examples of democracy within our country……..besides the "republic" idea stems from Rome not Christianity
Ruth- So are you saying that factors such as religion, race, ethnicity define the U.S. as a whole? They do not, for the fact that saying that the U.S. is a chiristian nation soley becuase the majority is "Christian" is like saying that the U.S. is a white nation due to the fact that the majority of citizens are "white"………..
Pink Lemur 13- It’s in the treaty of Tripoli, not a speech…………………
Pink Lemur (again)-Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."
The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness.
Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God." This nature’s view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
We’re not, no matter what SOME Christians would have us believe.
To the person who said "Spartan Pagans" and the person who thought it was the "Greeks" in general — Greece was NOT unified during the period in Athens where democracy was introduced and Sparta of the time was a duarchy (two kings as joint rulers)
To the poster who quoted a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance, historically the words "under God" were not part of the original Pledge and were added during the McCarthey era.
Spartan pagans.
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I thought it was the Greeks?
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America is not a Democracy. It never has been.
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One nation, UNDER GOD…
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We’re not, no matter what SOME Christians would have us believe.
To the person who said "Spartan Pagans" and the person who thought it was the "Greeks" in general — Greece was NOT unified during the period in Athens where democracy was introduced and Sparta of the time was a duarchy (two kings as joint rulers)
To the poster who quoted a portion of the Pledge of Allegiance, historically the words "under God" were not part of the original Pledge and were added during the McCarthey era.
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because the country is filled with christians.
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I don’t know. How can we be a "Christian" nation when most of the founding fathers were Deists?
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We borrowed from Roman republicanism, Greek democracy, English common law and Age of Enlightenment philosophy of equality. We didn’t take much from Christianity.
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Rome, Greece,and many other countries DID have Christianity.
Read you Bible. Peter and Paul were missionaries.
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If we were a "Christian Nation" then why doesn’t our government follow ANY of the 10 Commandments?
We are, unfortunately, a nation in which has a populace of citizens who are 80% Christian. So what. We are still a secular society, as deemed by the founding fathers.
Do not get me wrong, I do not nor would ever support all the actions of the "Founding Fathers". I use them as a reference to all the right-wingers out there who constantly mention them.
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cuz christians are the majority and they’re in charge, ….and the ones in charge can write history however they want.
therefore: "democracy was invented by jesus"
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O.k., here we go.
First, I’d like proof of what you say.
Second, this country was founded by people who wanted what? RELIGIOUS freedom. You had the shakers, the Catholics, the Protestants, the Quakers, etc. Look it up. It’s all in the history books.
Oh, and maybe you should look up the info about the founding fathers also. Were they a religious bunch? Hmmm….I wonder.
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ADDED: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Haven’t you learned by now that most politicians lie? Who was his audience?
I never said that it was founded on Christianity either…I said it was founded first and foremost for religious freedom.
BAM! And here’s some more!
Go here and look at the info if you dare…
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
EDIT: It’s like you want to stay ignorant or something seeing as you’re ignoring all of the info I’m giving you.
And that WEBSITE mentions MORE than just the Declaration of Independence. It also mentions the men at the Constitutional Convention.
And once AGAIN, I never said anything about it being based on Christianity alone. You might as well just go with the facts and give up the argument because you’re not going to win. It’s in the history books that this country was first founded by people who wished for religious freedom. That’s never going to change. As for the founding fathers…I believe they all had a religion, whether it was Catholicism, Protestantism, whatever. All you have to do is look it up.
And, you’re neglecting the Pledge of Allegience, and the money in our country.
I’m done arguing now. Thanks for the exercise.
The US is not a christian nation. You can’t believe those TV preachers, they will claim anything for money, and you can’t believer believers of any religion as they will say the same thing. They think it is fashionable to claim the US is a christian nation because they accept that mythology.
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We are not a Christian Nation, this is soemthing the political leaders use as a ride to their own dominating and greedy means.
I christian Nation would never decalre war on another nation, let alone rape and pillage innocent women and Children.
America is a Facist nation nearing a Dictatorship.
Do not be mislead as many of our political leaders will twist and pervert the once good name of god for their own will.
read up on Chrsitian Beliefs and understand that they mean no harm to any one and welcomes all, and in fact encourages good nature and diplomacy to everyone including those that have hurt us.
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We were founded as a republic. You need to do some reading, or let the big lie continue.
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Yes, but the Athenian democracy has been Christianised. As well as the Roman Architecture.
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Christians like to take things and call it theirs… creation/Messiah themes, holy books, holidays, land, the constitution…
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For the later half of the Roman empire it was a monarchy.
Democracy came from arguably the Greeks.
And FYI America is a Republic.
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this nation was built by christian men on christian principles. and also, "one nation UNDER GOD". you can’t get more simple
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that is because america was founded by the puritins.. a very strict sec of christianity, that is no longer practiced.. they were kicked out of england and started their civilization in boston massachusetts..
in the puritian belief the towns were run by the pastor of that town, not a centralized government, and EVERYTHING was for GOD… that didnt sit well with other settlers and now puritin is a dead religion..
that is the history of the "fundamentally Christian" nation..
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Pagan person…… good knowledge of American History of religion
Just as the Christians took pagan holidays and turned it to their own, they are doing the same with democracy.
Stealing and taking credit on whichever civilization that invented Democracy.
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We borrowed the Republic from Rome.
We borrowed the Democracy from Greece.
We are a democratic-republic. Okay, that’s the form of government.
Now, onto why its a Christian nation: Because Rome worshipped Ceaser–um, we kind of never did that here.
Most Christians who understand our form of government would never say that this is a democracy (no one who understood our form of government would) or that we invented democracy. But even if it was a true democracy, the majority would rule.
Edit: It is you who are confused about what is meant by a democracy. I won’t hold it against you, most modern democrats are, since they are okay with blocking the will of the majority using the Supreme Court. Anyway, you can research everything I’ve said here or take it to Politics & Government. Your entire premise is not worth any more of my time. We can argue about the architecture another day…
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Because our nation is (and has been) by majority Christian. Because our laws came from the English Common Law, which came from the Ecclesiastical Courts.
These men understood the principle of " FREEDOM OF/TO" expression and the importance of it’s place in a Democracy. Christian moral values have been copied by all laws in some shape form or fashion. Admit it or not! The Pagans that help form America was not afraid of the Christian doctrine, because it didn’t infringe upon their rights to disagree or for them to exist in their beliefs. (As Christians do today.) The problem with religion is that it causes disagreements within it’s organization and in the secular world. The relationship with God(Jesus) in the Christians life doesn’t infringe on the rights of any individual,but uncovers and make known crimes and sins. Religion points the finger, relationship prays for the infraction and tells the truth according to the Bible. No one can refute that religion was a factor in forming this country!
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The Mayflower Compact
"In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwriten, by the loyall subjects of our dread soveraigne Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britaine, Franc, and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc.
Haveing undertaken, for the glorie of God, and advancemente of the Christian faith, and honour of our king and countrie, a voyage to plant the first colonie in the Northerne parts of Virginia, doe by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by vertue hereof to enacte, constitute and frame shuch just and equall lawes, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meete and convenient for the generall good of the Colonie, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witnes whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cap-Codd the .11. of November, in the year of the raigne of our soveraigne lord, King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fiftie-fourth. Anno Dom. 1620" (Wheelwright, 32-33)
"no purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation.
These and many other matters, which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation." (Holy Trinity Church vs. United States. 143 U.S. 457,465, 471 Feb 29, 1892)
- Justice Brewer Supreme Court
"We have staked the future…upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-James Madison
"Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not violated but with his wrath?"
- John Adams
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It isn’t democracy that was Christian. It was the foundational documents (Declaration of Independence)…which was done in ADVANCE of the constitution…that said that rights are given by God, and that men may change their government if the government interferes with those rights.
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When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Declaration of Independence
Technically the country has no religious affiliation,
but since the vast majority of people are Christian,
they have a de-facto control over most all aspects
of life here.
So I would say yes it is a Christian nation, but
many of the leaders only use the name "Christian"
to gain power and profit from it, and do not preach
a true Christianity of love and compassion.
My Christian friends have explained this to me,
and it makes a lot of sense…
Jean
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